Last week Mrs Sensible phoned the local hospital to book me in for a check up, and before you start leaving sarky comments it was not the psychiatric clinic nor was it a follow up appointment with the dietitian. When Mrs S finally got through to the department, they said “we only book appointments in the morning, call between 9 and 11” which is fabulous because Mrs Sensible is normally in her classroom between 9 and 11 teaching her chilblains how to sit still and not pick their noses.
Mrs Sensible hates nose picking
The following morning she again calling the hospital and was told “Pecora Nera!! nope he is not on the system, we have recently upgraded the computer and he might have been deleted”
Pecora Nera… let’s delete him mwaha ha ha!
I have been deleted!!!! How is that possible? Mrs Sensible said she would phone the administrators and try to find out. She talked to a woman for three minutes and then hung up. Pecora, you need to go down to the main office and fill out some forms.
Now I know what Italy is like, so on Wednesday I went armed with my passport, identity card, proof of residence and one of Mrs Sensible’s wooden spoons. It only took a 10 minute search to find the correct office.
Me: Hello I English, please excuse my bad Italian.
Admin: Tell me!
Me: I need hospital appointment, but my name has been deleted, here is my identity card.
She turned to her computer and started clicking buttons and occasionally glancing at me.
Admin: è scaduto
Me: I have expired!!! I am still here.
She looked at my passport and my other documents, and told me to go to the local council offices and ask them for.
- Proof that I am an European citizen.
- Proof that I am a resident of my little village.
- Proof that I have paid my taxes.
She was not convinced that my UK passport proved anything.
Later that evening I went on my facebook page and ranted about the crazy bureaucracy in Italy. A very good friend of mine messaged me and offered to accompany me to the office to see if she could untangle the mess.
Yesterday we both went back to the office with my little bundle of papers and discussed the problem with a different administrator.
Admin 2: You came yesterday didn’t you.
Me: What did she say?
Admin 2:
The Englishman needs to go to the local council office and ask for:-
- Proof that he is resident of his village, the document he has is just a copy of his request to be a resident.
- A copy of his wife’s identity card
- His identity card
- His codice fiscale (national insurance number)
- Certificate that his company is registered in Italy.
At the moment I am wondering if it is easier to just fly to the UK and see my old doctor. I did however drive to the council offices and managed to get most of the documents, my accountant is sending over the work related documents hopefully I might be back on the system ASP (at some point)
Oh I nearly forgot, I need your advice with something…..
When I arrived home, the postwoman gave me a very sinister brown envelope, inside it contained a speeding fine!!! I must be very unlucky because I don’t know anyone else in Italy who has ever received one.
You may remember I changed my UK driving licence to an Italian licence, because it was too difficult to convince the Italian police it was not a Ukranian driving licence.
The speeding fine doesn’t say who was driving, they assume it was me because it is my car. I now have two options.
Option 1
Is to quickly pay the fine and burn all the evidence, before Mrs Sensible finds out. Otherwise I will endure a lifetime of reminders about my speeding ticket.
Option 2
Prove or convince Mrs Sensible that she was driving the car and then never ever mention her mistake again…… except when we are in the company of friends.
Its a difficult one.
Typical thought process of Pecora Nera when dealing with Mrs Sensible.
Englishman in Italy 
It’s so nice to read more bureaucratic stories – I realise that I’m not ‘special’ – it happens to everyone.
Funny read, thank you!
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Hi Marija, I have lived here eight years. I have visited the hospital once to see a dietitian (Mrs S had decided I needed a talking to) and once for a spider bite.
I think they deleted me from the system because I don’t use it often enough.
I don’t think Italians are really happy unless they have visited the doctors at least twice a month and had a couple of blood tests at the hospital to check everything else
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I’m so sorry for your Rocambolesque adventures regarding Italian bureaucracy……but at the same time I’m so delighted the way you tell them….
Hoping you’ll soon solve your problems, please let us know the complete iter……….
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Thanks 🙂 But it is just a normal day 😉 I was talking to a friend who lived in Germany. He said he managed to organise everything in 2 days… Water, Gas, Electric, rent contracts. And organised his family with the local doctors.
Amazing
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Same happened in Switzerland, to a friend of mine..
Wish you the best!
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Thanks, I really do love Italy but it could be so much better.
The government needs to start making changes or the country will just stagger from one crisis to another
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Nice to see you back PN 🙂
I’d definitely go for Option 1 with the speeding fine. Every second you delay will see the amount to pay clocking up, so no dithering!!! ater, if in conversation it transpires Mrs. S was behind the wheel on that occasion, it’s then you can reveal your chivalry and win her favour.
Sxx
sarsaparillasal.blogspot.com
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While I was looking for all the documents I need to be allowed to rejoin the Italian health service I found my certificate of marriage to Mrs Sensible, attached with a paper clip was a little note with the following.
Rule no 1
Mrs Sensible is always correct.
Rule no 2
If Mrs Sensible is proved to be wrong, refer to rule no 1
I have paid the bill and burnt all incriminating evidence
😀
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as long as the hospital does not permanently ‘delete’ you by accident, you will live to tell the tale.
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My worry is Mrs S might permanently delete if I don’t burn the evidence quickly
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Maybe you are not “deleted” PN. Maybe they have files with your first name as your surname. I had 3 named files at the local Spanish hospital until Spanish Social Services sorted it out. ie. Don Key, Don Ate and Don ‘t Call Us, We’ll Call You. I have also been called Citizen in one document, name taken from my UKrainan passport 🙄
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Lol, I was reading in the news about the Spanish civil servant who didn’t go to work for 6 years and nobody noticed… well until they tried to give him a long service award and realised he was absent
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LOL. Maybe his Italian cousin is similarly working in your local office 😀
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He was probably the guy who deleted my file
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Yep ! 😀
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Ha!!! I hear you!!! When I was living full-time in Bologna I would squeeze all of my doctor appointments in my annual one month visit to the U.S. so as not to deal with this. I can only handle so much Italian bureaucracy and my permesso application took everything I had in me. 😉
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Lol, that’s the way to do it
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That is what I did until I turned older than 26 and was no longer included on my parent’s health care! Here it’s really easy to convince myself that annual checkups for anything are unnecessary.
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I had an interesting meeting today in the office for the health care. They tried to convince me that the UK is not part of the European Economic Union…. and that is why I have to have all these forms. I talked to a school teacher today and she said the same!!!! God knows what they are teaching the kids
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Yes, totally! I am never more thankful for my overall good health than when I’m living in Italy!
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Me too, apart from a little man flu now and again
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Totally. Your post kind of inspired me…I just wrote about having strep throat on Valentine’s Day, ha! Not a pretty picture without health insurance.
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Sorry to hear that, I can visit my doctor and the pharmacy will give me the medicine, I just can’t book an appointment with a hospital. uffa!
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Ya you’re right. I’m probably making it more complicated than it should be. Hope you can get the hospital exclusion worked out!
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The Italians must enjoy sending hapless Englishmen on wild goose chases. If it were me I would have moved back to GB a long time ago. I hope eventually you will be back in the hospital system and in the mean time don’t you dare get sick.
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Fortunately I am not often sick, I occasionally suffer from man flu (Monday mornings) and I ache after strenuous exercise ( scratching and laughing) but I am not often in need of the little men in their white coats.
I might just give up the struggle, but then what would I write about?
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True but everyone needs to be “checked out” on a somewhat regular basis. We are only as good as our health or maybe that is wealth. 🙂
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Mrs S checks me out on a regular basis, she looks at me, feels my fevered brow and says… you have cervicale, I told you to wear a coat
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What would you do without Mrs S? Probably fall apart?
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mmmm difficult question, I would go back on the cornflake and wine diet, erh
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Well at least you’d not starve and you’d be very happy. 🙂
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And, I really admire your flow chart for decision making re: the fine. Life, she’s never dull it seems.
How are those Italian lessons going?
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The flow chart took ages to do, I find it helps with the decision making process when I am negotiating with Mrs S
There is normally another box that says “will you get into More trouble” it appears quite a lot
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Yvonne….. Italian lessons!!!!! One problem at a time .
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Sounds so familiar. I went to one office where they told me England was part of America and not in the European Union. When they don’t know what to do they send you away as an excuse. I got angry like so many Italians tend to do, threw my hands up in the air and eventually came away with a piece of paper of some sort. On the other hand, I once had 5 women around the computer trying to sort out a document for me so it really depends who you end up with.
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This morning they rejected me again and said The United Kingdom is not part of the European Economic zone, I need to E mail the Prime Minister, and tell him he doesn’t need to bother with the up coming referendum on whether to leave the EU
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It is absolutely pathetic isn’t it? I pointed to the European Union info on my passport then I kind of insulted him with a lesson on the European Union and when countries joined etc. They only gave me health cover for 12 months so I have to go back every summer. A Polish lady told me they do the same with her and she has been here for about years.
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I upset Mrs Sensible this morning, I told her I was bored with fighting the ignorant officials in town…. I refuse to give in and hand over all the paperwork I have collected, I have decided instead to apply for Italian Citizenship.
Mrs Sensible rolled her eyes and took another sip of her tea. I think she has given up
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PN, no need to take citizenship (unless you really want to?!?!). Get down to the Comune, and get yourself a Titolare di Attestazione di soggiorno permanente…with that you can enrol permanently in the health service and won’t have to bother about renewing every year. Simples!
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Hi Ingrid, The guy at the comune printed me one of those yesterday, he said “this is a permanent soggiorno…. but it is only temporary “”
I took it to the bar and with a glass of wine in my hand I tried to work out how it could be both permanent and temporary at the same time.
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They like to keep us amused (luckily as you have further fodder for your blog)! I guess he gave you the proof that you have applied for the Permanent Attestazione??? Rather than the certificate itself??? I think it took a while for them to produce it. I can’t remember well as I got mine a good while ago….I’ve been here way too long…I’m starting to consider all this rigmarole fairly normal!!! Aaargh :-O
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Sounds even worse than Germany! At least they’re efficient with the bureaucrapsy 😉
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The Italians love their red tape. Each time I visit the office they ask for different information
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HI Pecora, I had exactly the same experience a few years ago!! Very frustrating. The ASL were convinced that I had to renew my SSN entitlement annually. This is NOT the case for folk from EU countries…. I had to print off a document from the Provincia website in order to prove that this entitlement exists…sigh! To add to our worries, sometimes ASL staff link being in the Euro currency with being in the EU and hence believe that UK is not EU. If you have been resident for 5 years and have a certificate of PERMANENT residency (you need to specifically request one from il Comune) you can get a full SSN enrolment a tempo indeterminato. This will save you annual trips/arguments/nervous breakdowns/hours queuing at the local ASL. Good luck!
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I should be entitled to health care because I am married to an Italian, I appreciate Mrs S is Sicilian and therefore not classified as 100% Italian by some of the small minded Italians in the north.
I have decided to become an Italian citizen, which should be fun and will provide lots of fun for my blog
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PS Here is la normativa – you can search for it on Google. Documento
rilasciato dal Ministero della Salute data 3 agosto 2007, con il
riferimento Protocollo DG RUERI/II/12712/I.3.b e l’oggetto: Diritto di
soggiorno per i cittadini comunitari – direttiva 38/2004 e Dlgs 3
febbraio2007 n. 30
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Thanks for that
I have found in Italy there is always a law that contradicts another. I just need to print the correct one.
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Pete I’m always so impressed with the way you humor the Italian insane bureaucracy, it’s just endearing! You’ve just made me laugh out so loud cause I think it’s great you can turn your frustration into something so entertaining for the rest of us.
About the fine…I have the sneaky feeling my “very English” husband would go for option 2…he once accused me of putting a bottle of champagne in the freezer…shame he was completely p***** out of his head….I ignored him..
So tua moglie will know it’s you anyway…and she’ll ignore you too…and then make you you pay for a long time!
Good luck and keep on posting about Il Bel Paese!
x
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😀😀😀
Thanks,
I went with pay the bill and burn the evidence, Mrs S is always leaving bottles of champagne in the freezer…. Personally I prefer to just drink the stuff
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Don’t lie, UK means Ukraine! Everybody knows that!
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of course, of course I should have realised
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